Curse

Tharg · Jul 27, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I would like to run a 6-hero Sabway. Has anybody tried it? Any suggestions on the three additional heroes?

And yes, I have done 6-hero Discordway with great success - I just want to try something else for a change.

Killamus · Jul 27, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I like it a lot. 1 man sabway just doesn't have enough elite spots.

I prefer as my elites:
Lingering curse (In sheer irony, I run healer on this build)
Spiteful spirit
Pain of disenchant (For more irony, I run a prot build here)
aura of the lich + death nova
Icy Veins + rit healer
Signet of Spirits + spiritspammer build

All of them (except the aotl) should have animate shambling horror, and the aotl should have animate bone minions.

Paul Dawg · Jul 27, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I don't really see the value of a second spiteful spirit, and two MM's usually won't work. So a double-Sabway team is pretty questionable IMO. But you can bring a second copy of the N/Rt healer. (Just make sure that one has recuperation instead of life, because two copies of life is a waste.)

What would make quite a bit more sense is a Sabway/Discord combination team. Again, two MM's isn't going to work in most areas, so you'd need a sixth hero of some kind.

FengShuiDove · Jul 27, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

I like it a lot. 1 man sabway just doesn't have enough elite spots.

I prefer as my elites:
Lingering curse (In sheer irony, I run healer on this build)
Spiteful spirit
Pain of disenchant (For more irony, I run a prot build here)
aura of the lich + death nova
Icy Veins + rit healer
Signet of Spirits + spiritspammer build

All of them (except the aotl) should have animate shambling horror, and the aotl should have animate bone minions.

Pretty solid. Icy Veins is surprisingly good when you see it in action. I'd prefer Discord or Jagged Bones over AotL but it's a matter of preference. Packs plenty of direct heal, plenty of prot/cleanup, and some unexpectedly good usage of elites.

Killamus · Jul 28, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

I don't really see the value of a second spiteful spirit, and two MM's usually won't work. So a double-Sabway team is pretty questionable IMO. But you can bring a second copy of the N/Rt healer. (Just make sure that one has recuperation instead of life, because two copies of life is a waste.)

What would make quite a bit more sense is a Sabway/Discord combination team. Again, two MM's isn't going to work in most areas, so you'd need a sixth hero of some kind.

It depends on your idea of a MM. The old idea of using your minions as meat shields is really outdated, they do their job by dying, not living. So bringing something like blood of the master, or healing ring, isn't a good idea. The general idea of the builds I posted should have enough effort to plow through anything, even in HM, without minions, but minions are always better. Shambling horror is nice because it gives two meat shields and two deaths that last a lot longer then bone minions, at the downside of having a stupidly long recharge. But with 6 of em, that's not really an issue. The animate bone minions is there so that someone, at least, will always have a minion or two.

dracolysis · Jul 28, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Have to look at wiki for energy cost / activation time / skill recharge but here

1. Splinter Resto

2. Curse Para

* Variations:
- Normal SS Build without paragon skills, especially if party doesn't have a melee for "Find Their Weakness", or Fall Back is unwanted

3. MM Bomber

* Variations:
- AotL

4. Prot
12 Soul Reaping(Head) + Rune
12 Protection Prayers
3 Healing Prayers

* Variations:
- Restore Condition instead of Life Sheath
- Another res skill such as Rebirth

5. Heal
12 Soul Reaping(Head) + Rune
12 Healing Prayers

* Variations:
- Another Elite that provides solid healing on a Necro with 12 Healing / 0 Divine (WoH, etc)
- Another N/Rt Resto with Recovery instead of Life

6. SV
12 Blood Magic(Head) +Rune
9 Soul Reaping + Rune
9 Command

* Variations:
- Icy Veins
- Another Curse nec with different curses than the first (Feast of Corruption, Weaken Armor, etc)
- Spirit Spam
- Smiter/Bond/Prot nec (RoJ, Strength and Honor bond)

Equipment:
I either use a 40/40 set on the heroes or some staff
Survivor Runes + Vigor/Vitae

Player 1: What I personally use most of the time

Player 2: ???

I usually use this for VQing (where the 2x Fall Back saves time), or any 2-man PvE

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 28, 2009, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I prefer to just use two copies of Bomber, SS and Resto only removing skills that would otherwise overlap like Life for example. Sometimes, I will replace one N/Rt with N/Mo for stronger Dwayna's Sorrow.
Heroes would never cast the same hex on the same target that means they would spread SS all over the place which is extremely strong. Double Splinter weapon gives even more aoe nuking, double Putrid Bile means that every foe you kill would explode, with double Jagged Bones your minion wall is almost immortal.

I'm going to write the builds up on my PvX profile and post a link here.

Gigashadow · Jul 28, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

If you are running Sabway, I would consider using Signet of Spirits instead of Xinrae's. Mend Body & Soul will then remove 4 conditions at a time instead of 1, and the spirits also do quite a lot of damage between them. The tradeoff is slightly less defense, but I think it's worth it.

Paul Dawg · Jul 28, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

It depends on your idea of a MM. The old idea of using your minions as meat shields is really outdated, they do their job by dying, not living. So bringing something like blood of the master, or healing ring, isn't a good idea. The general idea of the builds I posted should have enough effort to plow through anything, even in HM, without minions, but minions are always better. Shambling horror is nice because it gives two meat shields and two deaths that last a lot longer then bone minions, at the downside of having a stupidly long recharge. But with 6 of em, that's not really an issue. The animate bone minions is there so that someone, at least, will always have a minion or two.

Two MM's usually won't work because you won't find enough corpses for them, not because the old idea of using minions as meat shields is outdated (or whatever). Yes, there are areas where you have enough corpses to warrant a second MM. But usually that's not the case.

Dahl · Jul 29, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Why is it that I keep hearing the words <skill>WAY?

I don't see the skill "I will avenge you!" anywhere in any of these builds. The only way a build can have the word "way" at the end of it, is if IWAY is part of the build.

Discord will avenge you?

Killamus · Jul 29, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Why is it that I keep hearing the words <skill>WAY?

I don't see the skill "I will avenge you!" anywhere in any of these builds. The only way a build can have the word "way" at the end of it, is if IWAY is part of the build.

Discord will avenge you?

What would you recommend calling it? "Three heroes with discord"? "Discord team"? You're right, there's no actual IWAY skill, but the last 3 letters held on for other builds. Which is why it's now "Way", not "W.A.Y.". A nomenclature brought out of an outdated build, but the idea (Basing a team around one-two skills) isn't outdated in the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Two MM's usually won't work because you won't find enough corpses for them, not because the old idea of using minions as meat shields is outdated (or whatever). Yes, there are areas where you have enough corpses to warrant a second MM. But usually that's not the case.

This is what confuses me. There's never not enough corpses for 2+ MM's. If I have two heroes with animate bone minions, all that means is that they can cast it as if echo'd. It also leaves for a higher max minion count - Even if there's just enough corpses for 1 MM, if you split those between two heroes, nothing bad has come of it. I rarely get above 20 minions with my discordway, but all 3 of my heroes have minion skills because that's the same as allocating an arcane echo to one of the shambling horrors, with NO downside. The ONLY downside to this is if you use skills like blood of the master, which work for all minions.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 29, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Here it is as promised.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Carni..._Hero_Necroway

I used this (- recently buffed skills) to get me Legendary Guardian, Canthan Vanquisher, Half of Elonian Vanquisher, Vanquish all of the gw:en areas and fill books in ~2 hours.

Gigashadow · Jul 29, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnivorous Cupcake

Here it is as promised.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Carni..._Hero_Necroway

I used this (- recently buffed skills) to get me Legendary Guardian, Canthan Vanquisher, Half of Elonian Vanquisher, Vanquish all of the gw:en areas and fill books in ~2 hours.

I noticed the N/Rt has Spiritleech Aura; do you think it makes the spirits from Signet of Spirits that much more useful? I would think if they get agro, they're going to die pretty quickly anyway, even if they're leeching 15 health/hit.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 30, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Gigashadow

Was my recent addition to the build to add a bit more damage but I forgot that in case of SoS it will only replace it with life steal. That aura doesnt make the spirits more resilient either so I just gonna remove it.

Paul Dawg · Jul 30, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Not sure how to respond to that. There's PLENTY of places without enough corpses for 2+ MM's. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Or maybe we're playing a different game?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

There's never not enough corpses for 2+ MM's.

Killamus · Jul 31, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Not sure how to respond to that. There's PLENTY of places without enough corpses for 2+ MM's. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Or maybe we're playing a different game?

What I'm trying to say is this: Name one area where, if you're already playing with 2+ necros in your group, that there is a downside of having two minion masters. Skills that leech minions don't count, as that's a downside to having even one.

Skills that affect minions usually affect all allied minions (Death Nova, blood of the master), the only ones that do not (And are worth using) are:
Dark Bond
Infuse Condition (Together with draw conditions, only one MM needs this anyways)
Putrid Flesh

So I see no downside to having more then one MM.

gw_poster · Jul 31, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

For the Lord Khobey bounty the other day, I paid someone 1k in ToA to drop off their sabway heros with me and mine (for me+6 heros - 2 sets of sabway) and proceeded to finish all of FOW. I've done a lot of vanquishes the same way, so in my opinion, yes there is a lot of usefulness to having a 6 sabway hero setup, in most areas.

Pocketmancer · Jul 31, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Hmmm, I usually keep 2 MM's at most when using 6 Necro heroes. Anything more and it seems to bog me down in both the middle of battle and outside of battle. It seems like whenever one thing with a corpse dies (be it an enemy or ally) the interruption sound plays because 5 of the necros attempt to raise a minion only to have it outdone by another, only to have their energy wasted at that moment, which could have been spent for more killing/healing. I notice the level of efficiency works better with 2 MM's at most when one is raising minions while the other's minion skill is recharging. This keeps a good general pace through the middle of battle and we don't have to wait for the minion bus to catch up when dragging them across a map for vanquishing.

dracolysis · Jul 31, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnivorous Cupcake

Here it is as promised.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Carni..._Hero_Necroway

I used this (- recently buffed skills) to get me Legendary Guardian, Canthan Vanquisher, Half of Elonian Vanquisher, Vanquish all of the gw:en areas and fill books in ~2 hours.

Didnt know anyone else put the same paragon skills I do on necs :P

Barrage · Jul 31, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Hmm, honestly at 6 necro's , there would be no harm whatsoever running a 6man discord or a sabway and discordway in the same group, it would prevent massive overlapping, and 6 discords can usually kill anything in HM.